tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post1882911113162814519..comments2023-09-25T05:50:59.427-05:00Comments on My Dirty Little Secret: Table TalkUrukhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-4058238798478890512009-11-11T21:21:47.372-06:002009-11-11T21:21:47.372-06:00Meh, I bet he has already forgotten. And you know ...Meh, I bet he has already forgotten. And you know I forgive you!Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-87048330472596702212009-11-08T20:04:57.913-06:002009-11-08T20:04:57.913-06:00Lion, I'm sorry 'bout the word verificatio...Lion, I'm sorry 'bout the word verification bit. Not my fault.<br /><br />Next time something like that happens, click on edit, and then preview it all over again. That should refresh the word verification to something less offensive.<br /><br />:-)<br /><br />And do give Ludo my humblest of apologies.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-78962865147118860712009-11-03T19:38:00.545-06:002009-11-03T19:38:00.545-06:00Mac,
Can so :p
Uruk,
Your word verification is ...Mac,<br /><br />Can so :p<br /><br />Uruk,<br /><br />Your word verification is parvo. Not cool, Uruk. Not cool. Ludo is upset with you :)Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-84507275828736119142009-11-02T20:18:50.856-06:002009-11-02T20:18:50.856-06:00I agree with Uruck on the issue of atheist labelin...I agree with Uruck on the issue of atheist labeling. Just as sure as Lion is that there is a god, I am sure there is not. And just as surely as I cannot prove my belief, she cannot prove hers. While I realize no one can be 100% sure of any thing - NONE can, I consider myself atheist. Perhaps I'm an atheist with agnostic leanings? But, unlike Lion's definition of agnostic, I no longer seek those answers, for I believe they can't be found.machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-68790274260096157482009-11-02T08:40:20.980-06:002009-11-02T08:40:20.980-06:00I do miss you, Mac! Tell your phone to get with th...I do miss you, Mac! Tell your phone to get with the damn program and start working right - sheesh!<br /><br />Uruk, embracing doubt it agnostic. I know people will claim the title Atheist but that doesn't mean it is accurate. Theists are defined as having a belief in a god(pick one). Atheists are the opposite - they don't believe there is a god. Agnostics are in the middle and unsure - they doubt, but keep looking for answers. Many "atheists" are, in fact, agnostics.<br /><br />I would be interested in that book because, let me tell you, science has never showed God (or any god) does not exist. That is the very nature of the problem. Science can neither prove nor disprove.Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-88957728833496351072009-11-01T17:27:27.954-06:002009-11-01T17:27:27.954-06:00Many atheists disagree on what that very term mean...Many atheists disagree on what that very term means.<br /><br />I suppose if we took a spectrum of certainty and uncertainty about god's existence (or non existence) we'll find that the word "atheist" will be embraced by many people along that spectrum.<br /><br />The meaning of "agnostic" and "atheist" often overlap for many non-believers.<br /><br />Not all who claim to be atheists will say that they are certain of god's non existence. They approach god like a scientific hypothesis-- they won't admit certainty of his or her existence until there is physical, verifiable (testable) proof. Until then, they assume his or her non existence while leaving room for the possibility that one day something might chance their minds.<br /><br />But until then, they embrace doubt.<br /><br />And such atheists can't seem to help this mindset either. This way of thinking simply comes natural after exposure to various experiences and bits of information.<br /><br />Some people (believers and atheists alike) exclusively use the word "agnosticism" to describe non belief that admits uncertainty and openness. But, many still use the word "atheist" to describe that same level of non belief. <br /><br />I think many atheists are still willing to admit that they have no proof that god does not exist. They are making an inference based on other ideas that make non belief make sense. Some atheists (agnostics) acknowledge this. Other atheists (hardcore atheists?) don't.<br /><br />A book I plan to read soon (after reading <i>1984</i>) is <i>God: The Failed Hypothesis</i>. The subtitle says something like "How science shows that god does not exist".<br /><br />I think scientific discoveries have often caused people to re-evaluate their beliefs in the supernatural. But, I don't think science actually <i>proves</i> the non existence of god. I think <i>God: The Failed Hypothesis</i> will be very interesting . . . but I don't think I will wholeheartedly agree with the title's implied premise.<br /><br />Incidentally, are babies atheists?<br /><br />Personally, I can't say for sure.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-14459397047352724612009-11-01T16:45:36.606-06:002009-11-01T16:45:36.606-06:00Yeah, Lion, you're probably right. I merely th...Yeah, Lion, you're probably right. I merely think I know. I KNOW, that I don't know. I know, I used to seek knowledge, but I no longer believe that knowledge can be found....And, I know that since my 'puter has been boxed I can't seem to leave a comment over on your blog page. Uruk's page works on my phone, yours doesn't. I have been reading your posts (I'm sure you miss my non-arguements ;-)machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-31659827206229692902009-11-01T07:55:38.345-06:002009-11-01T07:55:38.345-06:00Mac, the very nature of an Atheist (or, yes a thei...Mac, the very nature of an Atheist (or, yes a theist) is that they think they know the truth. Agnostics are the truly honest ones that say they don't know but keep searching (yep, I said it.)<br /><br />Babies are curious about everything. Who knows? Maybe they do ponder the universe!Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-31694671824602122602009-10-31T22:36:02.056-05:002009-10-31T22:36:02.056-05:00I've always thought the theist was the one who...I've always thought the theist was the one who tought they had answers . Ever see that sign "Jesus is the answer"?machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-7711658581147695332009-10-31T22:28:51.335-05:002009-10-31T22:28:51.335-05:00I think you are painting with a very broad brush, ...I think you are painting with a very broad brush, Lion. Not all atheists think they have all the answers. Sure babies are curious. But of what are they curious? Mama's tit, that electrical outlet, the taste of their own toe. I doubt many babies ponder the nature of the universe.machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-34769554202159025492009-10-31T20:44:52.877-05:002009-10-31T20:44:52.877-05:00"By your definition, Lion, babies most certai..."By your definition, Lion, babies most certainly are atheist -" it requires a lack of belief" . Babies lack many things, belief being one of them, knowledge being another. We, as humans, are born with a blank slate. Whatever belief we have is a result of our environment. Your beliefs are a fine example of this; you were Catholic, then your Mother dropped that and became pagan....All of which makes you the Christian we like so much today :-)"<br /><br />Mac. No. Just no. Babies are born curious always seeking knowledge. Always looking for the answers. That makes them agnostic, not Atheist. Atheists (think they) have the answers. :)Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-34467202159934368862009-10-31T20:16:09.370-05:002009-10-31T20:16:09.370-05:00By your definition, Lion, babies most certainly ar...By your definition, Lion, babies most certainly are atheist -" it requires a lack of belief" . Babies lack many things, belief being one of them, knowledge being another. We, as humans, are born with a blank slate. Whatever belief we have is a result of our environment. Your beliefs are a fine example of this; you were Catholic, then your Mother dropped that and became pagan....All of which makes you the Christian we like so much today :-)machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-31270540605053910872009-10-31T11:21:21.564-05:002009-10-31T11:21:21.564-05:00Mac, I must disagree. While I think we are born Ag...Mac, I must disagree. While I think we are born Agnostic (not Atheist that requires a lack of belief as opposed to simply not knowing and being in search of answers) I don't like the idea that we are taught to fear God. I don't fear God. If you (not you, but people in general) worship out of fear you are doing it wrong. Worship should come from love and admiration not fear.Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-83186831558926670362009-10-31T01:08:28.224-05:002009-10-31T01:08:28.224-05:00I'll side with Lion again....I donalt care muc...I'll side with Lion again....I donalt care much for coffee. Krispy Kreme, however, is too good to pass up. I eat them with milk :-)machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-17690968155687141192009-10-31T01:02:41.841-05:002009-10-31T01:02:41.841-05:00I think kids figure things out more than we give t...I think kids figure things out more than we give them credit for. I also think the default belief structure is atheism, or more likely, agnostic. When we are born, we believe nothing. We are taught to fear god (s) by our parents and community. We, in turn, teach our kids this fear - in the name of reverence and respect. I believe this to be our greatest failing as parents.machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04073782907747032366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-58649260273970623262009-10-30T23:35:15.544-05:002009-10-30T23:35:15.544-05:00Harvey, please remember that Church doctrine is ju...Harvey, please remember that Church doctrine is just that - *church* doctrine. Please don't judge the faith as a whole based on the misconceptions of the majority. <br /><br />Uruk, we can always be friends. You can have your sugary donuts and I can have my sugary "fruit" filled thing.Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-74221009596105925252009-10-30T10:17:36.404-05:002009-10-30T10:17:36.404-05:00Uruk:
Since I am not and have never been any kind...Uruk:<br /><br />Since I am not and have never been any kind of Chriatian, it is perhaps a little easier for me to make note of the fact that Christianity seems to urge its participants to see self denial as a form of worship. Not that this is not also true to some extent of both Judaism and Islam, but the whole concept of monasticism, celibate priests, fasting and abstinance, etc. seems much more prominant in Christianity.<br />Pedrhaps this concept derives from the Christian concept of original sin and is reflected in the idea that people cannot hope to live up to God's standards and must therefore seek forgiveness and be saved.<br />If Christians truly understood the admonition to "love your neighbor as you love yourself", they would see that one must first learn to love himself in order to carry this "Golden Rule" out to its intended conclusion. You cannot love your neighbor very much if you do not already have self-respect and at least some degree of satisfaction with whatever progress you have made toward living a "good" life. If your pastor keeps reminding you that you are a worthless sinner in spite of whatever efforts you may make to the contrary, it is hard to see how you can find much love or respect for anyone else.Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797750710657979526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-83916382791001995232009-10-29T22:22:15.963-05:002009-10-29T22:22:15.963-05:00Uhn . . . you don't like Krispy Kremes????
We...<i>Uhn</i> . . . you don't like Krispy Kremes????<br /><br />Well, we can still be friends. <br /><br />You know how Sponge Bob is about Krabby Patties? -- everyone loves them and cannot resist their goodness (not even Squidward).<br /><br />I feel like that about Krispy Kremes.<br /><br />I guess I was wrong.<br /><br />Pop Tarts are cool, though. I like 'em.<br /><br />And I guess I need to get out more and hike a little after partaking of their goodness!Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-79771763742740648662009-10-28T10:18:20.915-05:002009-10-28T10:18:20.915-05:00Admiration of nature is worship of the Creator, Ur...Admiration of nature is worship of the Creator, Uruk. At least it is in my mind. I do love a good hike. <br /><br />And no, I wont trade in my Pop Tarts (or Multi grain Cheerios) for Krispy Kremes and coffee - I don't care for either :) but you feel free to enjoy!Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-17124974419148764872009-10-28T01:20:01.125-05:002009-10-28T01:20:01.125-05:00"I think the purity gained is the forced simp..."I think the purity gained is the forced simplification of life. ... They don't rely on what man can make but rather on what God will provide."<br /><br />Interesting point.<br /><br />Maybe you can have your simplicity and your Pop Tarts, too. (Pop Tarts? How about coffee and Krispy Kream Donuts instead?)<br /><br />A retreat in the woods every so often? <br /><br />Or is that more worship of nature than the creator? <br /><br />Besides, a short stay in the woods probably doesn't compare to a permanent lifestyle of the Amish.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-29396329371162741092009-10-28T01:04:48.164-05:002009-10-28T01:04:48.164-05:00And though they don't use lights, many still u...And though they don't use lights, many still use horse and buggies. Even the wheel can be considered a technological advancement.<br /><br />I was not clear. Technology and Pop Tarts are not what make me un Christian. Both are neutral. What makes me a bad Christian is that I put my desire for them over my desire to find a compatible faith. Rather than give those up to meld into the one faith that I have found to be closest to what I think it was intended, I take my Pop Tarts and my Ipod and I worship quietly on my own. Not so bad, I guess. At least I don't have a technology shrine of Pop Tart god. :)<br /><br />I think the purity gained is the forced simplification of life. You must rely on God to care for you because technology will not. It forces them to keep a life that we all left a long time ago: hard work, reliance on faith and family and simplicity. Of course they use technology when they must (as they did during that horrible shooting when they sent those girls to the hospital) but only when it would be negligent not to use it.<br /><br />They don't rely on what man can make but rather on what God will provide.Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-89375098215944511822009-10-27T20:21:57.254-05:002009-10-27T20:21:57.254-05:00"But, I need the internet. I need the lights...."But, I need the internet. I need the lights. I need my Pop Tarts. Bad Christian, I know. But I can still admire them from afar and emulate them as much as possible."<br /><br />And what is un-Christian about Pop Tarts??<br /><br />I recently finished a book by Carl Sagan. He suggested that technology is neutral. People take it and use it for evil or good. For all technology can be is taking the acquired knowledge concerning the nature of things (science) and applying that knowledge to a goal.<br /><br />So what purity does one gain, in your opinion, from avoiding technology as the Amish do?<br /><br />And though they don't use lights, many still use horse and buggies. Even the wheel can be considered a technological advancement.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-88539572795156979252009-10-27T20:13:30.684-05:002009-10-27T20:13:30.684-05:00Anonymous:
Nice of you to drop in.
Your sentimen...Anonymous:<br /><br />Nice of you to drop in.<br /><br />Your sentiment has much to do with why I sometimes want to come out. Perhaps if I did, others in the closet would know that they aren't alone. And those <b>hostile</b> to our non-belief would have to learn how to accept us. But, I've found a local group in my area and that helps a lot.<br /><br />If you feel isolated, check around to see if there is some sort of skeptics society or atheist meet-up group.<br /><br />Feel free to come back and comment any time.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-23102962267865156362009-10-26T08:22:05.606-05:002009-10-26T08:22:05.606-05:00I am not commenting on the post but rather "w...I am not commenting on the post but rather "who you are". You are not the only one in this predicament. It's nice to know I am not the only one either. I got here via "choose doubt" and I am sure I will be back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-46829547189308619852009-10-25T18:43:20.142-05:002009-10-25T18:43:20.142-05:00Do you want to know my secret, Uruk? If I could gi...Do you want to know my secret, Uruk? If I could give up my technology, I would be Amish. I think they are pretty close to having it right.<br /><br />They live simple, good lives. They love their family and their neighbors. They care for each other and strangers. They worship quietly and as a group at home. And, most important to me, they refrain from judging those outside of their faith.<br /><br />But, I need the internet. I need the lights. I need my Pop Tarts. Bad Christian, I know. But I can still admire them from afar and emulate them as much as possible.<br /><br />But...yeah...small passionate groups that meet in individual homes really sort of scream "CULT!" don't they? That is unfair, too. But we have been burned.Nicole Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07312823319201028951noreply@blogger.com