tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post3369450216483123739..comments2023-09-25T05:50:59.427-05:00Comments on My Dirty Little Secret: An Ancient ArgumentUrukhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-35296710650596249882009-03-24T08:07:00.000-05:002009-03-24T08:07:00.000-05:00One more comment... can't resist..."He seems to co...One more comment... can't resist...<BR/><BR/>"He seems to contradict his own Calvinism sometimes."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps what appears to be a contradiction is really just evidence of your lack of understanding of Calvinism? Did you get 100% of everything right in the class?<BR/><BR/>I took a college class in basketball. Which NBA team should I play for?Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-53052976411865645352009-03-24T08:02:00.000-05:002009-03-24T08:02:00.000-05:00Tandi,I'm sorry, but taking an online course on it...Tandi,<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, but taking an online course on it doesn't make your opinion more credible to me. I am very knowledgeable in Calvinism, yet I will not attempt to convince anyone of that. I am not a Calvinist and I do not view Calvinists like you or like you claim someone on the outside would.<BR/><BR/>"Calvinists of course do not see it that way, but those who have not grown up in it see it differently. "<BR/><BR/>So ALL Calvinists have the same view and ALL who have not grown up in it see it differently? Sigh...<BR/><BR/>Anyways, I asked for an explanation and your answer helped me understand your initial statement. Thank you.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-44995438262560677852009-03-24T07:45:00.000-05:002009-03-24T07:45:00.000-05:00I took an online college-level course on it, and h...I took an online college-level course on it, and heard the teaching directly from a Calvinist....who I greatly respect actually....yet disagreed with in this matter. He mentioned that he had a professor that he greatly respected who took the opposing view also, that Calvinism painted God as an evil ogre. Calvinists of course do not see it that way, but those who have not grown up in it see it differently. I think Calvinists have a blind spot (as we all do). Any systematic theology fails to adequately present God as He truly is....because God does not conform to man's attempts to put Him in a theological box.<BR/><BR/>The author of "My Big Fat Greek Mindset" is this teacher I refer to. So I am not prejudiced against him or his other writings. He seems to contradict his own Calvinism sometimes. Yet other times it surfaces in what I consider a negative way.Tandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-55751497289422628662009-03-23T01:53:00.000-05:002009-03-23T01:53:00.000-05:00"Not that I'm surprised. Man often responds to not..."Not that I'm surprised. Man often responds to not understanding something by perverting it."<BR/><BR/>Bwahahahah so, so true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-82640637392323254882009-03-22T22:50:00.000-05:002009-03-22T22:50:00.000-05:00Its been a while since I've heard such a perversio...Its been a while since I've heard such a perversion of Calvinism. Not that I'm surprised. Man often responds to not understanding something by perverting it.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-52476347660961335342009-03-20T17:49:00.000-05:002009-03-20T17:49:00.000-05:00Calvinism makes John 3:16 a lie with its TULIP doc...Calvinism makes John 3:16 a lie with its TULIP doctrine of total depravity, predestination of some to salvation and others to damnation, denial of free will, etc. I wrote a poem about it one time:<BR/><BR/>My Anti-Calvinism Cogitations<BR/><BR/>God is not a rapist<BR/>He will not take us<BR/>Without our consent<BR/>How I lament<BR/>When I think of Calvin’s “ogre god”<BR/>Who would choose just me<BR/>And damn my family<BR/>No rhyme or reason<BR/>We cannot please him<BR/>He carries us along<BR/>Helpless to resist<BR/>We are his property<BR/>What kind of dance is this?<BR/>What kind of symphony?<BR/>“The Robot” I surmise<BR/>It is not wise, but inexplicable<BR/>To think of God<BR/>As someone so despicable.<BR/><BR/>Dave Hunt had this to say:<BR/><BR/>“There is not a verse in the Bible...which presents Calvinism’s radical idea that the sinner is incapable of believing the very Gospel which offers him forgiveness and salvation and yet he is condemned by God for failing to believe. … To say that God commands men to do what they cannot do without His grace, then withholds the grace they need and punishes them eternally for failing to obey, is to make a mockery of God’s Word, of His mercy and love, and is to libel His character... Why does God waste His time and effort and the time and effort of His many prophets pleading with those who, allegedly, cannot hear Him and who, even if they could, being totally depraved, would never respond to His appeal by believing and obeying Him? Why create this elaborate fiction of mourning and weeping over multitudes who God knows will not only refuse to repent but who, unless He regenerates them, cannot repent because of their total inability to do so?” <BR/><BR/>There is a good article on the web called "Calvinism Critiqued by a Former Calvinist" by Steve Jones. A google search will find it.Tandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-84456998036447894862009-03-20T09:53:00.000-05:002009-03-20T09:53:00.000-05:00"It takes man's religions and philosophies (Calvin..."It takes man's religions and philosophies (Calvinism, Dawkinism, etc.) to paint HIm as a mean ogre and liar. Dawkins especially infects his readers with this warped concept of God."<BR/><BR/>What?!?!? How does Calvinism paint Him as a mean ogre and liar?Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-17193773412275383692009-03-20T08:43:00.000-05:002009-03-20T08:43:00.000-05:00Lion said,"I was offended to see Him (rather than ...Lion said,<BR/><BR/>"I was offended to see Him (rather than those who believe in Him) called out as a liar."<BR/><BR/>Me too! I have read through the Bible at least 20 times and have never thought of Y-H-V-H as anything but merciful, longsuffering, wise, loving, righteous, and awesome. It takes man's religions and philosophies (Calvinism, Dawkinism, etc.) to paint HIm as a mean ogre and liar. Dawkins especially infects his readers with this warped concept of God.Tandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-18780380463708388282009-03-20T07:31:00.000-05:002009-03-20T07:31:00.000-05:00"That pretty well sums it all up for some folks, w..."That pretty well sums it all up for some folks, whether you meant it that way or not (Uruk excluded, naturally)."<BR/><BR/>;-)Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-70272079106762137452009-03-20T02:32:00.000-05:002009-03-20T02:32:00.000-05:00I kind of figured you meant Rockwell :) Long day?I kind of figured you meant Rockwell :) <BR/><BR/>Long day?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-78906911173793843172009-03-20T00:13:00.000-05:002009-03-20T00:13:00.000-05:00Lion, I know you didn't direct that at me. But, I ...Lion, I know you didn't direct that at me. But, I guess I just wanted to say that. <BR/><BR/>Um, I said "Norman Rockwell", right?<BR/><BR/>Not enough coffee earlier today. My brain is shutting down. I just meant Rockwell -- Somebody Watching Me.<BR/><BR/>As for the popularity of this post, it's only because every one participates and makes the conversation worth continuing.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-19667717439486698512009-03-20T00:09:00.000-05:002009-03-20T00:09:00.000-05:00Uruk, you were not the one who made the statement ...Uruk, you were not the one who made the statement that offended me. I am not offended that people use His name, although I do not personally (I suppose it is a deep seeded respect thing for me). I was offended to see Him (rather than those who believe in Him) called out as a liar. <BR/><BR/>This has become quite the popular post, hasn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-89343658179910060872009-03-19T23:32:00.000-05:002009-03-19T23:32:00.000-05:00> I reread my last post and it didn't sound...> I reread my last post and it didn't sound like I meant it.<BR/><BR/>Hey Zee, I think I follow you, man. It's all good. I appreciate your comment, too. If the truth is in another direction that where I'm going, I sure hope I start moving in the direction of truth.<BR/><BR/>The Lion:<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry you were offended. It took me a while before I could dare utter certain things that I may now say. But, I still try to maintain a sensitivity to others.<BR/><BR/>And I feel ya on the web cam thing. Nobody wants a Norman Rockwell moment.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-62613657310901861532009-03-19T22:09:00.000-05:002009-03-19T22:09:00.000-05:00"Yahweh is clearly a liar."I actually shocked myse..."Yahweh is clearly a liar."<BR/><BR/>I actually shocked myself with my response to this statement. 1. I don't know where I got the idea, but I have never been able to speak (or type) His name in that form. And I was surprised to see it used so casually. 2. I have never been so offended by anything anyone has ever said (or typed). I think that might be a record. I didn't even think I would be that offended. I hear all the time that Christianity is a lie but oh buddy did that strike a tune with me. <BR/><BR/>"If you don't have an in depth understanding then you will probably just stamp the explanation as juvenile, lame, a lie, illogical, or non-sense." <BR/><BR/>Now see, that made it all better. That pretty well sums it all up for some folks, whether you meant it that way or not (Uruk excluded, naturally).<BR/><BR/>"I respect the Lion for saying that candies always appear under her pillow for Easter."<BR/><BR/>Not just for Easter....and they aren't so yummy after you sleep on them half the night :)...and still no webcams! :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-43349409651007106942009-03-19T21:47:00.000-05:002009-03-19T21:47:00.000-05:00I reread my last post and it didn't sound like I m...I reread my last post and it didn't sound like I meant it. Uruk, I see you as one focused on the core as opposed to the crap around it. When I read how I first wrote that last sentence "seeking the core" sounded like I was implying that you haven't found the real core and that was not my intention at all.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-79765614695586840152009-03-19T20:53:00.000-05:002009-03-19T20:53:00.000-05:00"Zee points to the 1600s as the introduction of th..."Zee points to the 1600s as the introduction of the Easter bunny to our culture. Yet Tandi can point to something further back and older that impacts our current beliefs of the Easter bunny today."<BR/><BR/>I said the first recorded writing about the Easter Bunny was in the 1600's. I didn't include the part about it being part of pagan rituals because it was insignificant to my point. My point is that in time mankind tends to cloud the truth with made up crap around it. The truth is still in the core but sometimes its hard to see with all the crap around it. Some focus on the crap and some try their hardest to get to the core. Uruk, even though you and I may come to different conclusions about the core I still see you as one seeking the core.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-69487699674750631452009-03-19T19:26:00.000-05:002009-03-19T19:26:00.000-05:00>The Easter bunny goes back to ancient pagan fe...>The Easter bunny goes back to ancient pagan fertility symbols and rites. Its association with the Christian Easter shows the syncretism of paganism with Catholicism that has polluted Biblical truth. <BR/><BR/>That's quite analogous to my issues. Zee points to the 1600s as the introduction of the Easter bunny to our culture. Yet Tandi can point to something further back and older that impacts our current beliefs of the Easter bunny today.<BR/><BR/>I see the same thing with Christianity and Judaism. The Bible gives an account of how these began. But older information suggests something different. That they only evolved from earlier myths. This idea is hard for me to over come.<BR/><BR/>>I look forward to your post on the mystery religions, Uruk. None of this is new to me. I have already re-evaluated my belief system more than once....yet I still trust the Bible and my faith grows rather than weakens. <BR/><BR/>That at this time in my life, I do not believe as you do, I am glad to hear that you still hold on to your faith. I could not. And reading about the mystery religions impacted me. The didn't have an impact immediately. This whole ordeal is a gradual process. Like sand trickling though to the other end of an hour glass.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-24620735440548315912009-03-19T17:33:00.000-05:002009-03-19T17:33:00.000-05:00The Easter bunny goes back to ancient pagan fertil...The Easter bunny goes back to ancient pagan fertility symbols and rites. Its association with the Christian Easter shows the syncretism of paganism with Catholicism that has polluted Biblical truth. I look forward to your post on the mystery religions, Uruk. None of this is new to me. I have already re-evaluated my belief system more than once....yet I still trust the Bible and my faith grows rather than weakens. I keep Passover rather than Easter and I believe Yeshua rose on Sabbath morning, not Sunday (Wednesday Crucifixion). Dan Gregg's Passion Chronology puts all the puzzle pieces together, and his Biblical Chronology solves many other riddles and discrepancies that have caused doubt and skepticism. There are Biblical answers that satisfy the intellect ...for those who sincerely want the truth. <BR/><BR/>Zee, Dan understands the kind of science you speak of. You might enjoy dialoguing with him on the forum about matters of physics, creationism, etc.<BR/><BR/>See torahtimes.orgTandihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04677227443380385291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-26720896366185441572009-03-19T16:36:00.000-05:002009-03-19T16:36:00.000-05:00> Your beliefs about the Easter Bunny are based...> Your beliefs about the Easter Bunny are based on a number of assumptions about the Easter Bunny.<BR/><BR/>Sure. We usually have to start with some sort of assumption in any point we make.<BR/><BR/>> People tend to take things and exagerate them whether they start with something that is true or false. <BR/><BR/>I agree.<BR/><BR/>>The first known record of the Easter Bunny is in the 1600's. It was a hare that was symolic of fertility. You may deny the existance of the Easter Bunny based on your understanding of it which is based on about 400 years of man's modifications to what the Easter Bunny is but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. <BR/><BR/>But does the Easter Bunny exist as a being that will hide chocolates under the Lion's pillow? I wish the Easter Bunny would hide chocolates under my pillow . . .<BR/><BR/>Does God exist in the way that fundamentalists say? Which fundamentalists? I dunno. Pick an ideology-- even mine!<BR/><BR/>> For me personally it is very important to realize how man changes facts as they tell them . . .<BR/><BR/>Yes, you make a good point. The supposed facts are often argued about. And digging for facts is important, yet difficult at times. Being willing to accept new information and re-evaluate old information is also important-- and difficult to do at times. <BR/><BR/>I wouldn't have taken the position that I currently have without re-evaluation. Nor would you be where you are without evaluation of your personal faith. That goes for nearly everyone. But, at some point you decide what sources you trust for your information until they turn out untrustworthy or you realize you have misunderstood something. That also seems to be different for each person. I suppose that's why many who question god's existence play the "science card". I've done it. Sure have. Uh-huh. I think what is trying to be said when the science card is played is that science makes progress by questioning.<BR/><BR/>People who don't want to re-evaluate won't question much-- regardless of whether one is a believer in God or not.Urukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-53239441477308078352009-03-19T16:16:00.000-05:002009-03-19T16:16:00.000-05:00Uruk:Your beliefs about the Easter Bunny are based...Uruk:<BR/><BR/>Your beliefs about the Easter Bunny are based on a number of assumptions about the Easter Bunny. People tend to take things and exagerate them whether they start with something that is true or false. The first known record of the Easter Bunny is in the 1600's. It was a hare that was symolic of fertility. You may deny the existance of the Easter Bunny based on your understanding of it which is based on about 400 years of man's modifications to what the Easter Bunny is but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. For me personally it is very important to realize how man changes facts as they tell them and I also "apply it to God, god, gods, Zeus, Jesus, Yahweh, Allah . . . I come to similar conclusions like that of the Easter Bunny."Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-72930900792931255512009-03-19T15:37:00.000-05:002009-03-19T15:37:00.000-05:00> Anyone know an atheists blog who is science m...> Anyone know an atheists blog who is science minded?<BR/><BR/>I'll admit Zee, I'm no scientist and will even say that I'm probably not an expert at anything. You also made a point on the <A HREF="http://disevangelists.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Disevangelist</A> blog that scientists can easily be guilty of using bad arguments and holding to unfounded beliefs.<BR/><BR/>But, I can talk about the Easter Bunny. Here's why I no longer believe in the Easter Bunny.<BR/><BR/>I've never seen the Easter Bunny hide eggs. But, I did catch people who claimed the Easter Bunny exists hide eggs for him (or her). Then they proceeded to lie to me that the Easter Bunny hides chocolates and eggs outside for me to find them. <BR/><BR/>:-D <BR/><BR/>(Hey, its my actual experience.)<BR/><BR/>I also don't believe in the Easter Bunny because I've come to believe that history has mythologies that have given rise to our current traditions about the Easter Bunny.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe in the Easter Bunny because I never see him or her bring my kids anything either. Did I piss off the Easter Bunny or something?<BR/><BR/>I respect the Lion for saying that candies always appear under her pillow for Easter. But, I suspect that if a camera was to monitor what happened (<I>what happened</I>, not to "spy" on the Lion) I doubt we'd see an Easter Bunny deliver the chocolate-- unless we define the Easter Bunny as some person disguised or dressed as such.<BR/><BR/>So then, did I prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I still have not successfully dispelled the existence of the Easter Bunny. But, I have personally come to a conclusion that the Easter Bunny doesn't have enough weight to control my life. At least, nothing beyond following the tradition of planting Easter eggs for my kids. But, I hide the eggs and my kids know I did it-- not the Easter Bunny. But they still have fun just the same. They love the hunt.<BR/><BR/>When I take this same <I>kind</I> of scrutiny (but in more detail) and apply it to God, god, gods, Zeus, Jesus, Yahweh, Allah . . . I come to similar conclusions like that of the Easter Bunny.<BR/><BR/>No rocket science involved.<BR/><BR/>And nope. I don't know anything about rocket science, either. But since I don't know anything about rocket science, I couldn't use it just then!<BR/><BR/>:-DUrukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05913837011380611461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-49445791503260751342009-03-19T11:55:00.000-05:002009-03-19T11:55:00.000-05:00"I have no fucking clue how it all works beyond a ..."I have no fucking clue how it all works beyond a very rudimentary understanding of phase shifts and the mere presence of differing chemical/physical properties of materials in newly discovered phases of matter."<BR/><BR/>Never mind then. If you don't have an in depth understanding then you will probably just stamp the explanation as juvenile, lame, a lie, illogical, or non-sense.<BR/><BR/>Anyone know an atheists blog who is science minded? Not a teacher either, they rarely count. I'd be interested in getting a different perspective though.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-33913561060515415242009-03-19T11:27:00.000-05:002009-03-19T11:27:00.000-05:00I can PRONOUNCE quantum displacement-charge transi...I can PRONOUNCE quantum displacement-charge transitions in two-dimensional granular superconductors... but physics was never my thing. I am however very interested in the concept of multiple phases beyond the traditional plasma/gas/liquid/solid states, and I have been very interested in what I've read regarding applications of superfluids and superconductors (and not just the LHC). <BR/><BR/>I have no fucking clue how it all works beyond a very rudimentary understanding of phase shifts and the mere presence of differing chemical/physical properties of materials in newly discovered phases of matter.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-16132958225836527992009-03-19T07:11:00.000-05:002009-03-19T07:11:00.000-05:00Ginx, to answer your question I need to know how m...Ginx, to answer your question I need to know how much you really understand about quantum displacement-charge transitions in two-dimensional granular superconductors.Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359591881376157621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3547195737073832993.post-14655022573139224942009-03-19T05:56:00.000-05:002009-03-19T05:56:00.000-05:00You can't claim the universe is created from a bei...You can't claim the universe is created from a being that previously had no other existence from which it sprang. In trying to explain the creation, beginning with a being of immeasurable power and complexity is like saying, "In the beginning, there was a massive machine that made matter. No one made the machine, it was just always sitting there waiting to turn on. Then it did, for some reason. And here we are." Lame story.<BR/><BR/>If you want my opinion, I think the Judeo-Christian god could be an outcast whose primary goal is to convince people that he is the only one. We as humans wouldn't trust a person who has no past and claims to have no family. We would have lots of questions for them about where they come from and why they had to leave. For some reason, this inquisitive nature does not extend to the divine.<BR/><BR/>At least Zeus had a father. Yahweh is clearly a liar.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02504734487692109101noreply@blogger.com